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 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.

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mgs_ita
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MensajeTema: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 2:26 pm



The swinging Sixties roar again on VirtualClassics and F1 Classic! This time, the trio made by the American Smallblockhero (author of the 1969 and 1971 mods) and the Italians ChaosZero (GRID rF edition and WEM mods) and mgs_ita bring on rFactor one of the gretest classics in simracing: the first full mod ever made for Grand Prix Legends continues to live today! Welcome the 1965 F1 Mod!

The project is till in W.I.P., but is really close to the release, to be honest.
Each and everyone of our team looked for the highest quality we are able to give with the great material Luigi70, Slimjim and ChiefWiggum provided us, reworking, restyling and repackaging the whole thing to be as close as we could to the real cars.

ChaosZero provided us the highest skills he's got both in driving and painting; SmallblockHero provided the converting and the necessary "How-To"s to get the whole thing started, running and perfected, as well as helping the whole team in testing the mod too. For what comes to my side, I provided the physics and all the data I could: tons of books, two (long) trips to Maranello to take real-world sizes and measures, and (in a really lucky way) I got the really precious feedback of Mauro Forghieri (former Ferrari head designer) and Sir John Surtees (needs presentations? Nah... :D).

Don't worry, the mod is really near to his release, but for now, you can watch some pics and videos to get the gist of it ;)








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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 2:58 pm

Fantastic job! Can't wait to drive them!

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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 3:25 pm

Congratulations! Great! Thanks a lot! adorar2 
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.    Vie Jul 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Thank you for this great season of racing and your fantastic work!

;) ;) ;) 
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 8:43 pm

fantastic work!
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you

adorar2 adorar2 adorar2
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 10:31 pm

@mgs_ita
if you let me meet Mauro Forghieri and John Surtees....ffsf 
I come walking up to maranello....bart03
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Vie Jul 05, 2013 11:01 pm

Fantastic! Looks great!!!

Many thanks for share with us

Regards
Darío
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 12:26 am

Luigi 70 escribió:
@mgs_ita
if you let me meet Mauro Forghieri and John Surtees....ffsf 
I come walking up to maranello....bart03

Come on, I was so goddamn lucky that time... a meet that can only happen once in your life ^^;
And I didn't get their phone numbers ^^;
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 3:25 am

which cars will the mod include?

Lotus 33 / Climax V8
Lotus 33 BRM V8
Lotus 25 BRM V 8
Lotus 25 Climax V8
Ferrari 158 V8
Ferrari 1512 F12
BRM P261 V8
BRM P578 V8
Cooper T73 Climax V8
Cooper T55 Climax 4
Cooper T77 Climax V8
Cooper T60 Climax V8
Brabham BT11 BRM V8
Brabham BT10 ford 4
Brabham BT11 Climax V8
Brabham BT7 CLimax V8
Brabham BT3 BRM V8
Alfa Special Alfa Romeo 4
LDS 2 Climax 4
Honda RA 272 V12

Entre las nuevas tecnologias, 4 valvulas por cilindro y Honda seria la primera en estar pronta desde el comienzo y su motor estaba pensado con este concepto de 4 valvulaspor cilindro, Climax y Ferrari estaban experimentando tambien.

LOS MOTORES DE 1965
BRMP56 220 bhp @ 11.750 rpm
Coventry Climax FWMV MkVI 212 bhp @ 10.300 rpm
Ferrari 1512 225 bhp @ 11.500 rpm
Honda V12 230 bhp @ 11.000 rpm

NEUMATICOS

Dunlop introduce las R7 basadas en las R6 pero con mejor agarre, el dibujo fue cambiado para dar una mejor respuesta en la lluvia, las mejoras en compuesto y dibujo redujeron los tiempos en un 2% en mojado y 4 % en seco.
Goodyear retorna a la competencia y desarrolla la K y WA para lluvia, las K estaban disponibles solo en diametros de 13 inch, con anchos de 6.2 a 7.2 inch, la de lluvia (WA) estaban disponibles en duiametros de hasta 12 inch con un ancho de 9.2 a 11 inches en el dibujo



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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 9:20 am

Well Ozpata, the cars included are these:

Lotus 33 / Climax V8 (Yep)
Lotus 33 BRM V8  (no, because Reg Parnell used the 33 with BRM engine in less than 2 races out of 10)
Lotus 25 BRM V 8 (Yes)
Lotus 25 Climax V8 (Yes, with Hawkins, Mitter and Geki Russo)
Ferrari 158 V8 (Yes, but only N.A.R.T. and Vaccarella, for gameplay reasons)
Ferrari 1512 F12 (Yes, but official Scuderia drivers)
BRM P261 V8 (Yes)
BRM P578 V8 (No, because Scuderia Centro Sud's most present driver was always breaking down or retiring, the others almost all the times didn't start)
Cooper T73 Climax V8 (No)
Cooper T55 Climax 4 (No, it was really a pain in the a** to remap to rF standards, it was hopeless)
Cooper T77 Climax V8 (Yes)
Cooper T60 Climax V8 (Yes)
Brabham BT11 BRM V8 (Yes)
Brabham BT10 ford 4 (Yes, Prophet drives it)
Brabham BT11  Climax V8 (Yes)
Brabham BT7 CLimax V8 (Yes)
Brabham BT3 BRM V8 (No becasue both Raby and Amon didn't start the race with those cars. They did qualify but no start.)
Alfa Special Alfa Romeo 4 (Yes)
LDS 2 Climax 4 (No)
Honda RA 272 V12 (Yes)

To be completely honest, most of the cars that aren't there are like that because of two main reasons:

1. Most of them weren't consistent at all in the championships, resulting in a one-time appearance of thousands of really slow cars. Imagine a field composed of almost 30 cars and half of the field is composed by cars comparable in speed with a Fiat Panda... this is the case of the South African GP, a really painful mess of a really short track (Prince George circuit), sharp turns and lots and lots of snails going around on the track.

2. For the Ferrari 158, Brabham BT7 and Cooper T73: I know they were used by their owners in some of the races, but there is another problem: upgrade files. I don't mean to be harsh, but I always fear to end up like Tatinos' F1 Seven: lots of cars almost identical one another just to represent all the GPs properly I've also tried to use a TrackConfigBase.ini and Upgrade.ini files but rF is really complicated on that.

"Entre las nuevas tecnologias, 4 valvulas por cilindro y Honda seria la primera en estar pronta desde el comienzo y su motor estaba pensado con este concepto de 4 valvulaspor cilindro, Climax y Ferrari estaban experimentando tambien.
(To be fair, ozpata, Climax produced the 4-valve cilinders in response to Ferrari's 207 V12 engine, which was more gradual and controllable while going for more power, but on the downside was thirstier than the 205B V8 model and the FWMV Mark 6.
"

LOS MOTORES DE 1965
BRMP56 220 bhp @ 11.750 rpm (representedwith your data)
Coventry Climax FWMV MkVI  212 bhp @ 10.300 rpm (represented with the data you said)
Ferrari 1512   225 bhp @ 11.500 rpm (represented, but it was 220 bhp @12K rpm)
Honda V12  230 bhp @ 11.000 rpm (represented with your data)

Also, we have the FWMV Mark 4, Ford E109 L4, Alfa Giulia 1.6 L4 and Ferrari 205B V8 engines properly represented.

"NEUMATICOS

Dunlop introduce las R7 basadas en las R6 pero con mejor agarre, el dibujo fue cambiado para dar una mejor respuesta en la lluvia, las mejoras en compuesto y dibujo redujeron los tiempos en un 2% en mojado y 4 % en seco.
Goodyear retorna a la competencia y desarrolla la K y WA para lluvia, las K estaban disponibles solo en diametros de 13 inch, con anchos de 6.2 a 7.2 inch, la de lluvia (WA) estaban disponibles en duiametros de hasta 12 inch con un ancho de 9.2 a 11 inches en el dibujo
"

Don't worry, as out beta testers said, the tires are quite realistic, although not porecise (you know... we don't have the real tires here to run with ^^; )


[/quote]
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 1:29 pm

Ferrari tipo flat 12

it was conceived in late 1962 to be the replacement of the Dino V6, it offered the potential of revving at 12.000 rpm but in reality that engine was more safe at 11.500 rpm

Bore / stroke: 56 mm x 50.4 mm
Stroke/bore ratio: 0.90:1
Piston Area: 295.7 cm
BHP per litre: 150.0

it was presented Saturday January 18 1964 at Maranello but it did not run, it appeared at the Italian Grand Prix practice in September with some changes to the injection system, inlet trumpet were slightly longer to produce some more torque, power output then was claimed as 210 bhp @ 11.500 rpm compression 9.8 to 1

The race debut was a month later in Watkins Glen, for Mexico a new profile of the camshafts was claimed to give 5 extra bhp

Monza 1965, the team introduced revised trumpet angles, output was claimed to be a225 bhp @ 11.500 bhp

Chassis :
0007 used in 1964 Watkins Glen and Mexico
0007 used in 1965 S.Africa, Monaco, Belgium, France, U.Kingdom, Holland

0008 used in 1965 Germany,Italy and USA

0009 used in 1965 Italy, USA, Mexico


Dunlop R7

in equal conditions the R7 was capable of 20% increase of maximum speed against the R6
the temperature requirements were lowered by 5 to 10 C, the braking performance was increased by 10 % even though it was more noticeable in wet conditions, the cornering grip was claimed to increase to up to 20%

temperature window is wide from mid 50s to 85 C loss of grip will start to become evident at 100C
pressures from 30 psi ( 275 kpa) for the lightest to 55 psi for the heavier car but 40s psi was more the top limit

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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 1:51 pm

ozpata escribió:
Ferrari tipo flat 12

it was conceived in late 1962 to be the replacement of the Dino V6, it offered the potential of revving at 12.000 rpm  but in reality that engine was more safe at 11.500 rpm

Bore / stroke: 56 mm x 50.4 mm
Stroke/bore ratio: 0.90:1
Piston Area: 295.7 cm
BHP per litre: 150.0

it was presented Saturday January 18 1964 at Maranello but it did not run, it appeared at the Italian Grand Prix practice in September with some changes to the injection system, inlet trumpet were slightly longer to produce some more torque, power output then was claimed as 210 bhp @ 11.500 rpm compression 9.8 to 1

The race debut was a month later in Watkins Glen, for Mexico a new profile of the camshafts was claimed to give 5 extra bhp

Monza 1965, the team introduced revised trumpet angles, output was claimed to be a225 bhp @ 11.500 bhp

Chassis :
0007 used  in 1964 Watkins Glen  and Mexico
0007 used in 1965 S.Africa, Monaco, Belgium, France, U.Kingdom, Holland

0008 used in 1965  Germany,Italy and USA

0009 used in 1965 Italy, USA, Mexico


Dunlop R7

in equal conditions the R7 was capable of 20% increase of maximum speed against the R6
the temperature requirements were lowered by 5 to 10 C, the braking performance was increased by 10 % even though it was more noticeable in wet conditions, the cornering grip was claimed to increase to up to 20%

temperature window is wide from mid 50s to 85 C loss of grip will start to become evident at 100C
pressures from 30 psi ( 275 kpa) for the lightest to 55 psi for the heavier car  but 40s psi was more the top limit

I didn't know about the R7 tyres, really... where did you get all that data? I'm really curious ;)
All the data I could find I got from Forghieri and Surtees themselves and the books "TuttoFerrari" (Mondadori, 2008) and "Forghieri on Ferrari" (Nada editore, 2013). Other data came from real measurements of the cars (158 and 1512 were exposed in Galleria Ferrari and Museo Enzo Ferrari, the first in Maranello, the second in Modena). :)
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 2:04 pm

I used to work with old racing cars , F5000 , porsches and the like and been collecting racing data for over 30 years, a lot of conversations with racing people that keep in notes, some of this Dunlop data came from brief conversations with amongst others Dan Gurney, Doug Arnao.

always be careful of Italian ponies, a lot of the numbers cited by italian makers are a bit confusing or represent the numbers on the dyno or optimistic, as you will know not all of the ponies at the dyno test make it to the track, maximum revs are numbers that have to be treated very careful as teams will usually go for a slightly safer range, back then mechanical failures was a concern more than it is today and if the engine didn't produce a valid gain going for maximum revs, which is the case of the 1512, then it is safe to think that the team will lower their band a bit.

I think that I might have some profile or footprint drawing of the tires, I will have to look for it as the chassis evolution if it is needed.

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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 2:11 pm

also if you need some information of the Climax engines, let me know

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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Sáb Jul 06, 2013 2:38 pm

ozpata escribió:
also if you need some information of the Climax engines, let me know

Chap, you got a message in your inbox ;)

And it's great to know that you are on the "other side of the wall": I'm studying and practicing as mechanical engineer in Rome... mostly I pass the days on the drawing board :D
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MensajeTema: Re: 1965 Formula 1 Season - W.I.P.   Dom Jul 07, 2013 4:15 pm

Very good job, mate.
We're waitin' with great wish.
Thanks to all the team.
adorar2 

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